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February 15, 2024. Special Meeting of the Board of Governors.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: I want to call the meeting to order.
Thank you, all, for being here. This is once again the most
important thing that the board needs to do this year, so I appreciate
everybody's commitment and support. Thank you.
Can you hear us, Luis?
>> MR. LUIS GONZALES: Yes, I can.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Great. Thank you.
>> TINA NEIL: Is there anything else you need to do, board
chair?
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: No, thank you. You're on.
>> TINA NEIL: I'm just going to be quick. I just wanted to make
sure that you all knew the names of the representatives from Anthem.
Some of you got to meet them earlier, but we have Michael Ballew and
Scott Watson here.
They are going to be leading this meeting to give you all an
update and a preview of what the search looks like and also to talk
to you specifically about also your thoughts about what you're
looking for in the next chancellor for Pima Community College.
I'm going to pass it over to them, and as Theresa said, they run
a tight ship. So over to you.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Thanks, Tina.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Well, thank you. We are very excited about
the opportunity to bring you great candidates for your next
chancellor.
We'd like to kind of start off I think with talking a little bit
about the timeline, just to give you a high-level overview of that,
and then we can go into some of the other information we'd like to
get from you ladies and gentlemen today.
We have worked with Tina and David and Jeff to put together a
timeline, looking at what we understand that you want as a Board of
Governors in your hope that a candidate can be picked by the
summertime. So this is the time frame that is best going to support
that.
Just to bring you up to speed, we have met with the search
committee. We have also been onsite for meetings. We had some very
good meetings with constituent groups, very impressed with those
individuals and their commitment to the college and this process.
Was able to gather some really good information to put together our
profile for the next chancellor. And I'll talk in a few minutes
about kind of what we'd like to get from you to assist with that
profile.
We are in that kind of still evaluation process of all the data
that we've gathered. There was an online survey that Tina and her
group put out and made available for individuals at the university
who were not able to attend the meetings.
We had 195 people who responded to that survey, and we are still
going through some of that, but it looks like everything was put in
there as far as comments, thoughts, and so forth.
Maria, go ahead.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: You said university people. Were you --
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: I'm sorry. College. Yeah, college.
>> SCOTT WATSON: We were just at a university yesterday, Maria.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Right, right. We've been there all week.
The words get crossed, so just forgive me on that.
We had 195 people who responded. Their information is going
along very well with what we heard in the other groups, so no
surprises from what we have seen there.
The next step in the process will be to put together and finalize
with the search committee the search prospectus document that we will
use for marketing. We are looking at having that completed sometime
within the next couple of weeks, and then we will spend our time out
marketing to the national candidate audience, and we are looking at
May the 3rd to present candidates to the search committee for them to
start reviewing.
We will be back onsite on May the 10th to meet in person with the
committee to go through the candidates, narrow down and evaluate
individuals for a video interview session with those individual
candidates, and then we will hold the video interviews on May the
27th. Either the day before or day after, as well. We usually do
two-day sessions with those.
From those, they will select the individuals that they would like
to recommend to be brought onsite for onsite interviews. Those
onsite interviews are scheduled for between June the 3rd and June the
14th. That gives the selection of the candidate, development of
contract, starting the onboarding process with a target date of June
the 14th.
So any questions on that or additions, David or Tina, to that
that you'd like to add?
>> SCOTT WATSON: Maria, go ahead.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: I had a question. You said that you met
with committee members. Were there outside committees, like from the
community, or were they just internal from the college?
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: We met with the search committee, we met with
faculty groups, staff groups, we met with the group that will report,
the staff that will report directly to the chancellor. We had an
open forum for community members to join, as well, too, that we did
by Zoom.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Did they come?
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: We had a few people on that Zoom. It was not
well-attended, but, you know, that's not unusual. That's the reason
we do the online survey, as well, too, so it gives anyone who is not
able to come to one of those meetings an opportunity to complete a
survey.
If you'll give me just a second, I can tell you how many. All
right, so on the survey, out of the 195 individuals that responded,
we had 35 community members that responded in addition to the others.
We had 33 faculty, 70 staff, 37 students, 11 administrative
individuals, the 35 community members, and then 12 individuals who
stated "other."
When we look at, you know, who those others are, a lot of those
individuals could really fall under community members. They were
alumni, and, you know, others that we really could put under that
category as well.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Michael, will you be sharing those comments
with us so if we have our constituents call and say, hey, well, I
made this comment, we'll be cognizant of what they contributed so we
don't sound like we're unaware?
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Absolutely. I can share those.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Great. Thank you.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: The one question I had, how much notice did
you give the community to let them know that there was going to be a
meeting? The reason I'm asking that question is because when I got
it, it was really quick. I mean, you know...
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah, it was quick. The notice went out
while we were onsite doing those meetings. So they had what, Tina,
originally like three or four days to complete the survey, and then
we actually extended it. It was supposed to conclude at I think
10:30 or 10:45 your time on Friday evening, and we extended that till
the same time on Monday. So we gave them over the weekend to
respond, as well.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: So let me just ask, did you advertise
outside of the college, or was it all just online?
>> TINA NEIL: Phil Burdick and his team sent out messages
through the website and social media in order to advertise the
community forum piece, as well as when we were in the community forum
and then shared the survey link to everybody was there. Then we
extended the survey link at request for people to further send out
into the community, which is probably why we got the larger numbers.
So, yes, it was a little quick, but they started advertising on
social media and the website late the week before Anthem came out.
So we tried to give as much notice as possible.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Thank you.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Maria, I'm not 100% sure about the entirety
of the list, but when I saw Phil Burdick's e-mail that went out,
there were people like Tim Steller from the Arizona Daily Star, so
there were quite a few people like that that I saw on the e-mail
list, just e-mails that I recognized.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: So did it go out also to the TV stations?
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: I don't think so, no. I mean, I don't know
all of the e-mails that it went out to, but I think they reached out
to the people who normally communicate with the college. You know, I
think the people that like to have us hear from them, I think that
that communication was sent to them also from Phil Burdick's office.
We're going to move on, Maria, just because we have -- Wade?
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: I have seen search efforts in the past lose
top candidates because of leaks from the committee.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Uh-huh.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: I'm wondering if we have made it clear to
the committee that Arizona law forbids them to leak information
through this search process, and if leaked, there could be punitive
efforts by the attorney general's office.
So have we told them that they're in executive session pursuant
to state law and they are, by law, not allowed to leak any
information on these candidates? Because if word gets out that we
are leaking information, we'll lose candidates.
>> SCOTT WATSON: We concur.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah, we do. And we had a lengthy
conversation with them about confidentiality. We did not discuss the
potential punitive damages, but, you know, we will have an
opportunity to do that again. We'll be meeting with the committee
again very soon.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Michael, didn't you also say that we will
all be signing a nondisclosure statement in that meeting, the last
meeting we were in?
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Absolutely.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Yeah. I think Wade's got a good point.
Let's just mention to them once again they can be held for punitive
damages if they are not playing the card.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: All right.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thank you.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Tina, we need to make sure we include that in
the written, in the document, as well, too.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: I have a timeline question for you, Michael,
getting back to what you were saying before.
When you said that at the end of May there would be virtual, and
then interviews, and then in that first two weeks of June, there
would be in-person ones.
You're talking about the search committee, right? That's who is
doing the interviewing at that point? I'm trying to figure out,
like, when does the board come in, when does it transfer over?
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: The search committee will do those video
interviews, and then when the search committee -- well, first of all,
they'll review candidates, they'll narrow down the candidates to a
list that they want to do video interviews with.
Typically, just for example, the last chancellor search that we
did there were 23 candidates. They narrowed it down to 10, because
that's two days' worth of interviews, two full days. And then from
those 10, they will likely narrow it down to probably 4 with maybe an
alternate that they would recommend to the board to be brought onsite
for interviews.
Then the onsite interviews and how the board fits in with all of
that, we will work with Tina and her group to figure all of that out.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: All right. I just want to make sure I'm
understanding you. So the virtual interviews are done by search
committee; the in-person interviews are done by the board.
Is that what I just heard or no?
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Tina, do we know exactly how those onsite
interviews are going to work yet as far as on campus including the
board or...
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Yes, the board will be included in that,
yeah. It will be the committee and the board for those onsite
interviews.
FYI, I'm not sure, Michael and Scott, if you know, last night in
our board meeting we voted that myself and Wade McLean, the chair and
the vice-chair, will also be part of the search committee.
So there will be some board understanding, and of course if we
need to share any of those topics, I guess we will be sharing them
only in exec session, of our exec session, is that correct, or...
>> MR. JEFF SILVYN: So some of this work will be in exec
session, some will be open, right? Because --
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: No, I'm saying that if all of the committee
work is considered exec session, you can't share.
>> MR. JEFF SILVYN: Yes, but what I'm saying is not all of the
committee work is exec session. Relative discussion of the timeline,
there is nothing confidential about that. What is going to happen in
exec session will be any conversations about the applications, the
candidates, what questions we're going to ask them if we don't want
them to know, so all that you don't want people outside the search
immediate sphere to know will be exec session.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: So none of that we can share?
>> MR. JEFF SILVYN: Correct.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Okay. I understand now.
>> MR. JEFF SILVYN: So when they elect the chair of the
committee, that's not open meeting, right? There's no secret about
that. But the detailed work about candidates, details of the search
process that you don't want candidates to know in advance, that will
all happen in exec section so we don't compromise the integrity of
the process.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Sorry, I'm just trying to wrap my head
around this. I apologize if I'm missing something here.
In my head, at some point there is a handoff from the search
committee to the board, like the search committee is done, and then
the board takes over the last part of that hiring process.
When does that handoff happen, or is it running in parallel?
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: I think it will happen at the onsite
interviews. The committee will still be there, right, because they
will be telling us, you know, what they learned, what they gleaned
from their visits, and whatever happened.
But from that point on, the board will be involved. Then
basically, as soon as that is done, I think the committee is also
done, right? Because after that point, everything is going to be
done by the board.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Right.
>> TINA NEIL: Yes. So the onsite interviews are the point where
the search committee basically says I interviewed these ten people,
we recommend these four to go forward to onsite interviews, and the
onsite interviews will be a combination of exactly what Theresa is
talking about, you know, board interviews as well as an opportunity
for the rest of the college to meet these candidates so then you, as
a board, can take some of that feedback into consideration as well as
your own feedback to help you make a, like, college-wide decision.
So, yes, at that point the search committee will be, like, this
is what we have all learned, and these are the candidates, and here
is why we are recommending these candidates to you, and then, Greg,
yeah, that would be kind of like the passoff.
Then at that point you all would take over still, you know, with
the help and support of me and Dave and Jeff, just as far as the
coordination process goes.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Okay. Perfect. Thank you. That makes
sense to me. And just a quick favor, if we could lock down exactly
what days those are, I want to make sure that I'm holding them so I
can be involved.
I mean, I'm already booking business travel for my day job in May
and June right now. So if I need to hold dates, I need to know that
soon, like within the next few days, about which dates I have to
hold.
>> TINA NEIL: Yeah, so after this meeting, Michael and Scott and
I are going to try and do exactly what you're talking about, outline
in more specific dates that then we can put out for holds. So we
just had to kind of, like, tell you all the timeline, make sure you
were, like, yes, and then we can kind of move forward. Because I
also need to know what the date holds are as well as telling the
search committee. So, yeah.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Thank you.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: All right. So moving on to our next topic
here, keeping us flowing, in our meetings with the constituent
groups, we asked them to talk with us about some traits and
characteristics that they felt like were needed in the next
successful chancellor.
We also talked about some challenges that they may face from the
perspective of those constituency groups. We talked about what the
college would look like 12 months, 18 months from now under the
leadership of the new chancellor, as well as what would let them know
that the chancellor had been successful in the job. We talked about
some key attractors to the role that we could use from a marketing
perspective.
There certainly were some trends among the groups. There was
nothing that really stood out among the different groups as far as
traits or characteristics or concern that concerned us or that were
really different than what we hear, you know, basically from other
searches that we do.
You know, they are looking for someone certainly who is a good
leader, who listens, who is collegial, who is very student-focused,
who gets out into the, you know, sees the community both internally
and externally, and, you know, those types of traits that we are
looking for.
We would like to hear from this group, however, exactly what
you're looking for, because you're going to be the final
decision-makers. Their issues such as, you know, from a requirements
perspective, are you looking for someone who is just from the
higher-education spectrum, are you looking for someone or open to
someone who is a more nontraditional candidate who may be coming
from, for example, the business world with some connection to higher
education?
You know, we very clearly heard from all the constituent groups
that we met with, except for the community, we didn't get into that
with the community, but certainly from the staff perspective, the
faculty perspective, you know, they want someone from higher
education, and that is always the case when we talk to those groups.
However, we need to know from a committee standpoint, as we
continue to provide the charge to the committee, exactly what you're
looking for in an individual.
So we'd like to hear requirements, your thoughts on that, as well
as, you know, some traits and characteristics that you feel like we
need to be looking for in your next chancellor that's going to work
well with you as the board.
So we'll just open it up to you to throw out things to us, and
then we'll ask a few further questions as we proceed.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: So I know that we're not allowed to, you
know, say we want somebody under 45. (Laughter.)
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Right.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: But we do need somebody who has vitality
and innovation and energy, right? We don't want someone who isn't
going to feel like they have, you know, this amazing opportunity
ahead of them and they can, you know, just make the world a better
place, right?
So we need somebody energetic, you know, full of vitality. It's
very important for me to have somebody who believes in shared
governance and has actually practiced that craft and that art.
You know, I have been an educator my whole life, for over 35
years, and I do believe it's important to have experience teaching at
some level, but I don't necessarily think that we have to have
somebody from higher ed as long as they have experience and have all
the other characteristics and qualities that we need. But we would
like them to have had teaching experience at the community-college
level or the university. I mean, there are a lot of professionals
who have done that at our college, right? It used to be required of
our administrators to teach one class every two years, one semester
class every two years.
I think that's gone by the wayside. But I think that was really
important, because if people don't understand education from the
practical point, they understand it from that observed
apprenticeship, right? They did 12 or 20 years in education and they
saw how teachers did stuff, so they know what education is about, and
that's just a false statement, right? I have gone to dentists my
whole life, but I don't know what dentists do. So I think that that
is important.
Okay. I'll let someone else share. Thank you.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Thank you.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: I'm looking for a proven leader and without
any specific background boxes. I mean, if we get an applicant that
was a CEO at General Mills that ran an effective organization and
understood that they needed to pay the stockholders a certain amount
of money every year to be successful, and that they had a product
line that was marketable, that's okay with me.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: So I'm going to go ahead and talk.
I'm sorry, go ahead, Greg.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: No, Maria, go ahead. I'll go after you.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: I'm in line with Wade in that I think that
a CEO, somebody that's worked in the business community, somebody
that has proven that they work well with people and it's not a
dictatorship. The one thing that I would hope that we wouldn't do is
to hire an attorney. (Laughter.) I'm sorry.
It's really important, you know, I think with shared governance,
it's just that their training is a little bit different than in
education or within a business community. I would like to see
somebody that can hold people accountable and that his main focus is
the college and the people that work in the college and the community
and not self-interest.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: We heard that exact thing a lot from our
groups, from all of our groups, the accountability and the
self-interest piece. All that you're saying goes along well with
what the other groups have given us, which is good.
>> SCOTT WATSON: And there is always, I would say almost
uniformly across the country, but it was really highlighted in our
meetings there, a need for more transparency and more communication.
I mean, we always hear those two things, you can count on them, but
it was really emphasized in our meetings.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Thank you.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: So I think there is probably three things
that come to mind for me. Some of these are traits and some are just
kind of knowledge.
I agree that in my perspective with what Wade had said and Maria
was saying. I don't have any specific background requirements in my
mind. I'd really just be looking for someone who has a proven track
record of leading large, complex organizations, whether that was an
institute of higher ed or whether it was a large business or a large
community organization, like, I'm not specifically in that, but that
they need to have a history of driving clear outcomes and being able
to successfully lead a large, complex organization.
The second thing that comes to mind I think is it's going to be
very important to me that our candidate understands the importance of
Pima's designation as a Hispanic-Serving Institution and what that
means in historical context, that it's not just that we have a lot of
Hispanic students but what Pima College has meant for access to
higher ed for Tucson's Hispanic community, especially during times
when it wasn't as much access through the U of A and other
institutions.
So the cultural and historical context of what Pima has meant to
this community at large but also to the Hispanic community there,
there needs to be a recognition of that and an understanding of that
continued role and the historical place the college has been.
Then the third piece for me is I think it's critical that this
candidate understands the role that community colleges play and are
needing to play in workforce development. So, you know, an ability
to work with local businesses to identify workforce needs and then
develop, you know, programs to meet those needs. We certainly
learned or it was highlighted for us in D.C., when we were at the
ACCT conference, about how important that is nationally in terms of
where community colleges need to be.
And so it's of great importance to me that whoever our future
chancellor would be either recognizes that or has experience in doing
that in terms of those sorts of programs.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah. Let me address workforce development a
second, just thinking about what we heard from our meetings, as well,
too. Workforce development is definitely, as you said, important,
and they will have to continue to do that. That's going to be a big
initiative.
We got the feeling from the other groups that your previous
chancellor focused pretty much on workforce development and not much
else. There is a really big feel from your faculty groups, your
staff groups, your student groups that you need to focus, there needs
to be a balance between focusing on workforce development and the
academic portion of the college, as well.
Does the board agree with that?
>> SCOTT WATSON: Just to supplement Michael's statement, it
doesn't need to be a 50/50 balance. Nobody's suggesting that.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Right.
>> SCOTT WATSON: However, there does need to be some elemental
recognition of what the academic mission and purpose was of the
community college. So just something to think about, Greg.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Yeah, and I agree that we have to do both.
I mean, I think, in fairness, probably our workforce programs were
pretty far behind, and there has been a lot of effort to bring them
up over the last few years.
I think we have an odd internal tension where people feel like
one has to be done at the expense of the other, and I don't think
it's a zero sum like that, like, I think we can do all of those
things.
When I was talking about, you know, the importance of access to
higher ed and our Hispanic-Serving Institution, our role as a
transfer institution to the U of A that gives greater access to
four-year degrees, I put all of that under that heading.
So, yes, I think both have to be important parts of what we do,
but I also know, just for me personally, that workforce development
programs are really important to me, and so I don't want to lose the
momentum that we have had but also acknowledge we need to do both.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: I think the person needs to be able to
articulate his commitment to the internal and external constituencies
and explain why the college does what the college does.
It's one thing to make a comment like that at a board meeting,
but I truly believe that in the first couple years this college needs
to have somebody that stays at home, that is involved in campus life
at every single campus, and shows a positive interaction with
students and faculty and staff to show that there is an emphasis on
what happens inside the college, and then, at the same time,
understands the pressures the college is under from external
constituents, business community, and be able to articulate their
vision of a balance.
My personal opinion is that I don't know how a trip to Chicago to
meet with other community college chancellors and presidents early on
does us any good when we have such a need to have somebody here.
So I'm looking for somebody that can understand the community of
Tucson, the faculty and staff, and the students of the college, and
also the external workforce development people that really truly need
Pima College to meet their needs and see the college as a workforce
innovator. I think that can be done with the right person, but they
need finesse, they need a vision, and they need to be very visible
inside the college.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah, totally agree. From your student
perspective, you know, in looking back or thinking back at comments
that were made by students, you know, student life is very important
to them. Now, I know there are a lot of individuals that are online,
but I think there is a feeling that the students who are actually on
campus have been forgotten about in many ways.
The chancellor was not out meeting the students, not out, you
know, seeing there was really nothing going on from a campus life
perspective to pull the students in.
You know, one individual made the comment, we just walk around on
campus and kind of look at each other because nobody knows each
other. You know, let's have some cookouts or let's have a band come
in or let's have something from time to time to give some life to
campus so we can get together and get to know each other.
So there are some very simple fixes. From a recruiting
standpoint, campus life is something that whether you're going to
be -- even your online students, I think they are looking for some
type of connection these days to their college.
So I think that is going to be something that's going to be very
important for your new chancellor to focus on.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: I'm going to give Luis an opportunity to
share your thoughts. Luis?
>> MR. LUIS GONZALES: My feeling is that I heard a lot of good
comments, but one of the comments that I did like was the
transparency but also knowing the community.
But other than that, I think it's very critical and it's
imperative that whoever we hire listens. As a commonality that was
shared over and over, we need an individual that, as mentioned a
while ago, is a proven leader but also an effective leader. By the
effective leader, I mean that he needs to listen, and I agree with
Mr. Wade in reference to being out there in the community.
But also, it's very, very important, as we know that Pima is
Hispanic-Serving Institution, that we need to bring the people to us
again, but also, in turn, one of the things that I have said before,
and I'm willing to make it a commitment again, that we also, as a
board member, along with the new chancellor, be out in the community.
Let's have our meetings in the community.
That's one of the biggest requests that I, from day one, but it's
been five years now, but we have not done that yet, for whatever
reason. They say it's impossible to do, it's a lot of this and that
and that and this, but I don't think it's impossible. After doing
two, almost three years with COVID, nothing is impossible anymore.
But that's one of the things that I really believe that for us,
as board members and whoever the three others will be coming in, and
hopefully two of us will come in and a new one, that we need to be
out there in the community.
As was mentioned a while ago, there is a lot of people that do
not know or they would like to know us in reference to being out
there in the community, but that's one of the biggest things that I,
my focus is, and I would like to see not only the students but also
the parents, because the parents play a very critical role in
encouraging and promoting and also supporting reference to their
children and young adults to continue on with their educational
pathway, be it through academia and the transition to the U of A, but
also to the workforce development, as well, too.
But those are the things that I want to see is whoever we hire,
be listening to the people. Not only to students alone. The
community. But also to staff and faculty, as well.
Those are the areas that we need to focus and an individual that
has to be a listener and a go-getter. Thank you.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thanks, Luis.
Maria, what were you going to say?
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: I was going to say the new chancellor,
whoever it is, understands the community. By that, I mean that they
understand the poverty levels of our community, that they understand
the educational levels of our community and what those needs are,
because, you know, we have a really low graduation rate.
It's critical for our economy and also in providing, you know,
the classes that are needed that they totally understand what's out
there, what the challenges are in the community, and in that way that
hopefully we'll be able to increase our enrollment.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thank you. That's another thing that's
really important for me is that we increase enrollment. I don't
think focus has been put on that for a long time.
Some other things, we need to make sure that whoever we hire
knows how to work well with a board. You know, if there is this
give-and-take relationship, there is this respect and responsibility.
We are a volunteer board, which is different than business boards
where the boards are paid, right?
So when you waste our time by giving us inaccurate information,
when the administration or CEO gives us inaccurate information, not
only is it disrespectful, but it's also an abuse of our already
giving the service for free.
So I really expect the person who comes in to have a good working
relationship and understands how to, what's that word, when you can
use the board and make them better and make it work better instead of
just wasting their time. So that's another thing.
Unions are important to me. Not necessarily everybody on the
board feels that way, but I definitely don't think that any of us
want somebody who is antiunion, because unions are what makes America
great. We don't want to lose those people's skills.
You don't think that?
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: They make America great (smiling)?
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: They do. All the laws that we've got
because children can't work anymore if they're 12 years old, that was
all because of unions. Labor Day is because of unions. (Laughter.)
Then one other thing is when I joined a year ago, the motto of
this college seemed to be that we're doing the best we can because
this book says there are these five great upheavals, and since these
upheavals are happening, we can never improve enrollment, we can
never do anything better because the birth dearth -- I don't want to
hear any of that negativity.
So anybody who believes primarily in that Great Upheaval book,
they're going to -- you know, I want somebody who can recognize there
are situations in the community, but here's what we are going to do
to go above and beyond that negative input.
Wade McLean is going to speak here real quick.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: I would like to hear what the candidates say
is their belief structure and how they fit into the political arena,
both at the state, county, and city level, what is their role. Is it
wait and see what happens, be proactive, just what their perceptions
are.
I think we really need to have somebody that can be influential
in state politics, seeing as we don't get any funding from the state.
For this college to exist, we're going to need some state funding,
and it's going to be a difficult job to get that, but we need a
person that is willing and able to make that happen.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Just a quick question there. Does that mean
that those funds are available, that they need to go in, and this is
just in general terms, and persuade legislators that, you know,
freeing up some funds for these initiatives would be wise? What does
that look like historically, Wade?
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: We had trouble getting money when money was
available, and this year, for example, money is not available.
Budget is at a deficit.
But I think it's more of a sales position on this is the economic
impact we can have, and this is how we can increase not only taxable
income at the state level because our students are going to be able
to make good wages and pay into the state coffers and also be able to
get the private sector to support an initiative to return our funding
the way it was seven or eight, nine years ago.
Right now, our entire funding is based on growth, taxes, and
tuition. To me, that's not a successful model, because we are going
to run into a wall when we get to the point where we can't or won't
raise tuition and raise taxes and there is no help from the state.
There is only two community colleges in Arizona that don't get
funding from the state. So we have been excluded, along with
Maricopa County Community Colleges, in receiving state assistance.
That has to change.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Thank you.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Can I broach a very tough --
>> SCOTT WATSON: Yes.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: -- tough comment that I think the board needs
to know, going back to the comment that was made just a minute ago
about the individual having some knowledge in working with boards and
being able to work with boards. I think this is very important,
going forward.
We are going to bring to the board a different type of candidate
than what you may typically see or what you typically see if you're
running this search on your own.
We are going to be -- we'll run some advertisements, of course.
We have to do that in higher education. However, through many years
of doing this, we very seldom see really good, strong candidates
coming from advertisements. Those are, for the most part, active job
seekers who are looking at ads and who are running, a lot of times
running from something instead of running to something. And you
don't need a chancellor who is running away from something. There
are exceptions, but for the most part, that's what we find as being
the rule.
We are going to be reaching out to individuals who are
successful, happy, for the most part, making major contributions to
their organizations, and bringing those individuals in front of the
search committee and then ultimately in front of the board.
So there is a selling piece here that we cannot do. You know, we
can only sell these individuals up to a certain point. Then you're
going to be the final, as the board -- (indiscernible) from
California who said she received a call from someone who's on a board
at a college in California that she knows, who called her and said we
were looking for universities whose boards were not doing it the
right way and had some dysfunction, so we could better structure our
board in the way that we do things, and Pima's board is the example
that the consultant that was working with us used as a dysfunctional
board.
So word is out there. Everyone said that you're working much
better now and that there has been great improvement. However, these
candidates are going to do their homework. They are going to go
online. They may listen in on some meetings.
So, you know, we are going to need to present a united front to
these individuals when they come in, which is one of the reasons we
spend so much time up front talking with you and the constituent
groups on what we need here.
But, you know, keep in mind that there is selling to be done by
you as you're talking with candidates. If there are things that you,
as a group, disagree on at this point in what you're looking for or
what you need in your next chancellor, those are some things that we
need to kind of hash out or you need to hash out at this point in the
process early on so that doesn't come up as a red flag to candidates
when they're interviewing with you later, if that makes sense.
Now, that's a tough subject to broach, and we hated to bring that
up, but we do know that that is going to be an issue. That's going
to be a challenge for us when we go out to the market. You know, we
feel like we can overcome that challenge, but when they come in front
of you, they need to see that united board.
The other comment that was made from faculty and staff that I
think is something you consider, as well, too, is in most colleges
and universities, the board serves as kind of an oversight role, and
then the chancellor serves as that administrative role. They are the
ones that do the day-to-day. As the comment was made earlier, they
are bringing important information to you as the board for you to use
to make good decisions and not wasting your time.
You know, we're going to find you that person who is going to be
the one that's willing to do that, but these individuals are also
going to want, and they are going to ask the question, are we going
to be able to do our jobs? Or is the board going to be there looking
over our shoulder every step along the way?
So give us your perspective on what we can communicate to
candidates and kind of what you're expecting, what they can expect of
working with you going forward.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Michael, when you were talking about the
board presenting a united front, I do think that is what we will be
doing. I think right now we're all sort of telling you what's
important to us as individuals, not necessarily that we have already
discussed any of these things and we have already come to a
consensus, but, like, you know, if the rest of the board doesn't feel
comfortable with saying that we need somebody who's at least not
against unions, I won't push that when our person comes forward, but
obviously our college community will, right, because we have a very
strong union front in our college.
So they will see that, but it doesn't necessarily have to be
-- and I think that in general this whole board, if I may step out,
we are all unified that we want a very productive, proactive
chancellor who believes in shared governance, who believes in making
students first, who believes in moving the college forward both in
workforce development and the transfer track. You know, everything
that everybody has said, I think we all agree on all of those points.
The community involvement that Luis and Wade McLean talked about,
we all feel that same way. So I think in general, we are unified in
this. We all want to get the best chancellor so that she or he can
continue a forward trajectory of the college and not take us
backwards.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: Speaking for myself, I think if I was coming
into this situation as chancellor, I would want to hear that the
board is receptive to sitting down with the new chancellor and
delineating responsibilities. I'd like to hear what the chancellor
believes is their role, what their parameters on decision-making is,
and what the board needs to do to be supportive.
I think if I was applying for the job and I went back and started
looking at recordings of the board meetings, what I would come away
with is that we have administrators that have been attacked, and is
the role of a board or a board member to attack during a board
meeting or hold the chancellor accountable for the management of that
administrator?
I think moving forward together that we could come up with a good
plan, and I would want a chancellor that is good enough at board
relations that they could help us, guide us to come up with that kind
of a situation.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Very good.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Wade, thank you so much for those comments.
That's exactly how I feel. I believe that maybe, you know, in the
past when we questioned, and I was part of that questioning or, you
know, the leadership, it was because, as I have said before, that I
didn't trust the administration. I did not trust the counsel we were
getting nor the chancellor.
Now, moving forward, with all of us in agreement and trying to
get the best person possible, and I believe that this board that we
have now is a very constructive board. We respect each other. We
talk out issues.
You know, there is still some times when we may not agree, but we
respect each other's opinions. I think that when you're talking
about true transparency and working relationships, that's everything.
You know, we're not robots, you know.
So I just think that it's, you know, the other part is in the
past, and we all want to move forward. All of you guys, all of us
have said and agree on what we want. Everything's been stated.
I'm done.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Thank you.
Greg, were you going to say something?
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: I was just going to concur with what was
said. I honestly don't really know how to answer your question, to
be totally honest with you. I do think that we have made a lot of
progress as a board in terms of compared to the previous one about
treating each other respectfully, as Maria said, and treating each
other as peers.
We also have, we are five different people, and we have
fundamental disagreements about things sometimes, and that's not
going to change. So I think we can work through those disagreements
respectfully, but I scratch my head a little when we use that idea
of, like, a unified board.
I mean, yeah, we're on the same page, like Theresa said, about a
lot of those things, but those disagreements are not going to change,
and the chancellor is going to have to be able to navigate that
environment, you know, good, bad, or indifferent, and help to kind of
bridge and compromise and broker some of that with us. So I do think
they need to come in eyes wide open.
The other part that is just the reality of the timeline that
we're in is, you know, and I'm sure anyone worth their salt would
know just by looking at it there are three seats on this board up for
re-election shortly after this chancellor is going to be hired, so
what that future board looks like is a question mark that none of us
can answer in terms of the results.
I certainly hope we'll sustain the momentum and progress that we
have made, but I think there is a reality there that there is an
unknown about what's going to happen, because we are in this unusual
situation where in no other election would we have a majority of this
board be up for re-election but now we are because of the special
election and the two seats in their regular terms.
So there is some ambiguity there that people are just going to
have to live with because there is no way around it.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Gotcha. Scott, did you have some questions I
think that you wanted to ask the group? I'm just trying to watch our
time here to make sure we're not going to run out.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Thank you, Michael. Frankly, through the
discussions, a number of them have been answered. Thank you all for
that.
So one of the challenges in any search is generating curiosity.
That's sort of the first step, right, relative to accessing the
candidate base. You've got to get them curious about the
opportunity. Then that morphs and evolves and becomes more
significant throughout the entire process.
What, from your perspective, could we share with candidates if
they are sort of, eh, a little tepid about the opportunity? And we
don't expect people to be all juiced and rabid about it out of the
chute. What could we tell them that would push them over the edge to
participate if we thought they were really an outstanding candidate
that could move the needle at Pima? What could we tell them?
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: I have one suggestion, and that is
historically this community has overwhelmingly supported this
college, that the self-talk in the community is positive.
You go into any organization this large and you're going to have
detractors, but if you subtract the detractors, that it's a good
place to work, the students are well-prepared to move into either an
occupation or a university, and that if you ask the Chamber or the
Southern Arizona leadership group what they perceive about this
college, it's positive. So there is an opportunity to be a champion
here. This community will follow a strong leader that they believe
has the best interests of this community in mind.
So I see it as a real win-win for somebody that wants to
influence the progress of the community college and understanding
that they'll get the benefit of the doubt from day one from the
community, and they have a real opportunity to be extremely
successful.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Very good. Thank you, Wade.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Yeah, I would echo that too. I mean, I
think in terms of our biggest selling points, I mean, for the college
itself, I would say, you know, there is a tremendous opportunity here
to really move the needle in significant ways in this community.
You know, Maria mentioned earlier we're a community with a high
poverty rate, I think it's about 13%, 14%, 15%, something like that,
so the potential for the college, well, we are now, but the potential
to continue to grow and strengthen and expand the college's role in
transforming this community in really meaningful ways, I think there
is huge potential here for somebody that really wants to make an
impact in what they're doing and be able to see that over time, I
think that should be, I would hope that would be tremendously
exciting for somebody who really wants to get into it and do the
work.
And then the other piece, too, I think there are some really
uniquely interesting things about Tucson. You know, it's a large
community, and we're over a million people in terms of our overall
area, but it's not so large that, you know, you can't kind of wrap
your arms around it. It's also a community that has a strong sense
of itself in its geographic identity, that there is a lot of pride
from being here, being from here, being part of this community that I
don't see in other areas.
So it's almost a mixture of some of the benefits of being in
larger urban areas with some of the identity and benefits and sense
of community that you find in smaller rural communities. And we're
able to offer all of those things.
So I think it's a place where somebody could really be part of a
really interesting dynamic, vibrant community, that has a unique
identity, and at the same time have opportunities to make some
tremendous professional impact in terms of where they can take the
college. And I hope that would be exciting.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: And maybe we can throw in season tickets to
the University of Arizona men's basketball as an enticement.
(Laughter.)
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: So I want to apply for the job because I
love what both of you have said except the tickets, I could take or
leave those. (Laughter.)
Southern Arizona, just as another selling point, it is the most
beautiful place on earth. We have everything from deserts all the
way up to evergreen forests within 35 minutes of where we live.
Prior chancellors, not the most recent one, but prior chancellors, I
would go hiking with them, and we'd go hiking in the Catalinas or the
Rincons, and, you know, there is so much opportunity for someone who
is interesting and interested in activities to do in Tucson.
As far as getting out, meeting neighbors, meeting communities,
meeting all the different ethnic groups we have in town, you know,
there is all of the entertainment that's available, concerts, opera,
symphony, all sorts of sporting events.
Phoenix, I don't know why anybody would want to spend too much
time up there, but they have everything that we don't have, right?
So it's really an amazing place to live. It's an amazing place to
grow. Even though our schools have had, K-12 have had some, you
know, detractors, they do a pretty darn good job, and there are some
amazing districts. So if the chancellor, if she or he has kids, you
know, that the schools, there are some really, really great schools
in Tucson.
So anyway, I just think if you just -- when Wade mentioned the
detractors in the community, even though there are detractors of the
college, even though they bitch and complain about us, they still
support us.
So, you know, it's not like you're working against anybody. Our
overrides have passed overwhelmingly for K-20 education, so the
community, they don't mind spending their tax dollars. They don't
complain about educational taxes. So that's another great thing.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Thanks, Theresa. That's good.
Maria, any thoughts?
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: No, it's already been said. They do a
better job at explaining it than I do.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Luis, any thoughts from you?
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Are you still here?
>> MR. LUIS GONZALES: Yeah, I'm still here. Well, it was pretty
much said.
One of the things I just want to share is that Tucson is very
unique itself. I'm originally from the Phoenix area, so I'm partial
to Phoenix, as well, too. (Laughter.) But as mentioned a while ago,
it is a unique place, it's a slower, in my experience, it's a slower
motion in reference to the rat race up there. But more important,
it's that right now, Tucson area is something that can be built upon
with a lot of businesses that we have around here, especially with
Pima College.
I think, and I have said it before, nothing new, we can always do
better. But it takes a community, takes new leadership that's going
to come in, to do better, but also to take us up to that second
level, as well too.
One of the things that I personally was mentioning, like every
other day or every other meeting, is the state funding. Who better
yet to really provide the advocacy, the voice, the push to evoke
those funds to be returned back, talking to the people out there.
It's not only the Governing Board. It has to be the community.
That's it.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Thank you.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Who else do we have? Is it Marcos and Glenn,
if I can see the screen correctly? Do y'all have anything to add?
>> TINA NEIL: They are just our IT people.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Gotcha. All right. Just want to make sure
we give everybody a chance here.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Michael, the group today has been very
forthcoming with their observations and suggestions, so they kind of
covered most of my questions, which is wonderful.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah. What have we not talked about that you
feel like are going to be the greatest challenges of this person
coming in right away? I mean, you have given us quite a few, but is
there anything that we have not talked about that you feel like would
be a challenge to this individual coming in?
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: I don't think any of us have brought up the
HLC specifically, but I do think that that's something that is on the
radar, because, you know, we are in our reaccreditation year, and
it's going to be sort of -- well, I shouldn't even say midstream. I
don't know at what point, but maybe towards the end of what our
internal preparations are and then going into the actual site visits
at the end of this calendar year.
That's another sort of point of ambiguity that the person coming
in is going to probably start -- well, I don't know how much
influence they can have over a lot of that, but that's a variable I
guess that they are going to have to deal with. But also, you know,
we don't have the -- we have had some issues with our accreditation
in the past, which, I mean, I hope we don't have any this time. I'm
hopeful, cautiously optimistic, but I do think that is a thing that
the new chancellor needs to come in eyes wide open about. I mean, I
hope we get great news, but we'll see
>> SCOTT WATSON: Well, these bodies, as you know, rarely roll
through without some recommendations, right? I mean, there is going
to be something, I'm sure.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Job security. (Laughter.)
I think the other things, so some of the challenges I think is
Pima is in a state of change in some areas, you know, where we are
realigning our online education department. The finances are always,
you know, questionable because once again we don't have an increasing
revenue. We have a static revenue. But of course everything else is
going up, cost of items and inflation and et cetera.
So there are some challenges. I don't want to say that they're,
you know, negatives, because I think any time someone has a creative,
you know, inquisitive type of mind, there are solutions to every
challenge we have out there. So hopefully, you know, the candidates
don't look at those things as negatives. They look at them as
opportunities for growth.
So, you know, that whole growth mindset is so darn important any
time in education and especially when things are, the list of
challenges are quite a few.
You know, HLC, getting reaccredited, increasing enrollment,
funding, salary increases, all of those things to me just seems like
a normal part of a job for anybody who's going to be in this kind of
position. So hopefully our candidates have that sort of outlook
also.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: You get us a candidate who is open, honest,
collaborative, caring, nurturing, and a visionary, and they will be
successful.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: And strong. They have to be strong. Yeah.
Not strong as authoritarian but strong as, you know, making sure the
college's needs are being met and that people are doing what they're
supposed to be doing. Holding people accountable.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Yeah. We heard thickness of your outer derma
layer, thick skin being required, several times. There was a bit of
a motif there. Is that true? What do you think about that?
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: You're talking about a chancellor?
>> SCOTT WATSON: Yes.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: I think that's more of being nonreactionary.
>> SCOTT WATSON: Okay.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: Willing and able to take a shot and use it
in analytical decision-making as opposed to emotional
decision-making.
>> MR. GREG TAYLOR: Yeah, and I agree with what Wade said. I do
think there is a reality of this community that it is maybe somewhat
activist in nature, just sort of in general, and so I do think that
you have some people who do their activism through, like, public
blame and shame as opposed to collaboratively trying to work
together.
So there is always going to be some part, and a lot of times it
might be well-intentioned, but you do have to be able to kind of roll
with it because it will happen. It's just the nature of this
community.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: You know, Michael and Scott, when you guys
were talking to the original committee that was choosing the hiring
firm, I did hear something that you guys said about diversity in your
approach. I just thought about this, but, like, there are those
organizations, NALEO, the different organizations of leadership in
higher education that focus on the minority population,
administrators that are minorities.
Are you going to be advertising in their brochures, things like
that, also?
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah, we typically do The Chronicle, and we
use their diversity distribution which goes to about 120-plus
organizations, diversity. Many of those will pull that ad and put it
on their websites. Others will just simply distribute the ad to
their members.
We also use diverse issues in higher education. In your
particular case, you know, being a Hispanic-Serving Institution, we
will likely, there is a Hispanic leadership in higher education group
that we have used from time to time, and we are certainly open to
placing it anywhere that you want us to.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: I mean, I just think it's really important
that we make sure that those people from diverse backgrounds know of
this opportunity. It's not a requirement to hire a Hispanic person
or anything like that, but we just want to make sure that they have,
you know, access to the announcement so they're able to make their
own application if they want to.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Yeah. And you will have a diverse slate of
candidates to review. You know, our internal policy is that we bring
forth a diverse slate of candidates 100% of the time, and we have
done that over the past three years.
For those of you that were not involved in that discussion of
selecting firms, about 68% of our placements are women and people of
color right now for president and chancellor-level positions. So
those are numbers we are very proud of. I think the average right
now for search firms nationally is about 65%, so we do make a very
big effort to reach out to individuals of diversity.
So if there are places specifically that you would like us to
advertise, if you would shoot me an e-mail on those, I would greatly
appreciate it, and I will make sure that we include those.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thank you.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: You're welcome. And I tell you what, I will
put my e-mail address here in the chat if you want to have that.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: And maybe, Tina, since we are in this sort
of group thing, I don't really have access to the chat right now,
will you just forward those e-mails to the board members?
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: There it is.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: Hey, Tina, it's nice to have an HR director
with a face.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Shame on you. (Laughter.)
>> TINA NEIL: You're welcome.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: If we can brag on her, she is fabulous. If
you were not a client, I swear we'd try to steal her from you. She
has been great through this process. She's on top of everything.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Tina, after last night's board meeting, I
had two different e-mails from people who weren't at the meeting but
listened to it. They told me that I was spot-on in thanking you for
stepping up. They said you have been responsive and the most
efficient HR person, that they have been here for five or six years,
one of them said, and you have been so efficient every time they have
needed to contact you.
Anyway, thank you again.
>> DR. WADE McLEAN: So use your expertise. Put together a
training session for the Governing Board.
>> TINA NEIL: You just tell me what you want and need. I'll
come out and do some training. Yeah, so as I said, organization is
my game. I will make sure that I use that talent to help you all
out.
>> MS. MARIA GARCIA: Right.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Tina may have something already on this to
use for the board, but we do offer -- well, we teach our search
committees how to do competency-based and behavioral-based
interviewing, and we use that through our process in looking at how
past behaviors predict future performance.
We also frequently will do that, do a brief training on that with
our board when they are looking at making decisions, just depending
on how comfortable you feel like your interview expertise may be.
You know, Tina, that's certainly something that we are open to
doing if that will assist in the process as well, too.
>> TINA NEIL: Yeah, I think the board can let me know if they're
interested in that. You know, in my prior work and working with
career services at the University of Arizona, as we talked about,
Michael, I know some of those techniques, so if the board wants that
we can either co-do it, or they can say, no, we just want Michael,
you know, whatever you all are looking for. You'll just have to let
me know as we get closer to that process.
I didn't finish saying, Theresa, thank you for sharing those
compliments. It's one of my New Year's resolutions to make sure that
I accept compliments. (Laughter.)
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Thank you. Do we have anything else we
needed to talk about?
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: I think we have covered it from our
perspective. Is there anything as a group that we have not asked you
about or that you have not told us about that you feel like we need
to know?
All right. Thank you very much for your time, and, you know,
you've given us some very valuable feedback.
It is comforting to know what you have given us fits very much in
line with what we heard from the constituent groups. There doesn't
seem to be any roadblocks there that we or you are going to face
going through the process, and that's great. That's always good to
know going into it.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: Great. Thank you.
>> MICHAEL BALLEW: Thank you.
>> MS. THERESA RIEL: We will adjourn this meeting, then.
Adjourning. Thank you.
(Adjournment.)
*********************************************
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